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ChatGPT and AI are hot topics for all us right now! Let’s get into how these tools work for photographers. On this episode of How You Pictured It, we delve into the world of AI technology and its impact on copyright and fair use. Our guest, Paige Griffith of The Legal Paige, provides valuable insights into AI tools that can help with social media hooks, blog titles, editing podcasts and videos, and even simplifying language to aid in better digestion by clients. We discuss concerns over job replacement and the need for industries to proactively figure out how to leverage AI to benefit their operations. Additionally, we learn about the US Copyright Office rulings, the legality of AI-generated works, and the ongoing battle over copyright and ethical concerns regarding AI technology.
Paige brings her legal expertise to the topic of AI programs like ChatGPT, ImagenAI, and AfterShoot, helping us get clear on how the programs should and should not be used in our photography businesses.
We talk about:
• why these tools can be beneficial for us as small business owners
• the safest ways to utilize them legally
• the biggest questions surrounding the future of AI and our culture
Find Paige at thelegalpaige.com
[00:00:00] Kate: All right. I am so excited for my guest Paige to be here today. We are going to be talking about AI and all of the legalities With that, um, we did do a recent episode about AI and have a lot of questions about the legal stuff, so I am excited to have Paige here to tell us more about that Paige. Can you go ahead and introduce yourself?
[00:00:21] Paige: Yeah, thanks for inviting me on the show, Kate. So my name is Paige Griffith. I am the owner and lead attorney behind a legal Paige. We’re a legal education. Platform that helps small business owners get legally legit, be their own CLOs, diy, the legal side of the business by themselves. Uh, we offer education and knowledge through our podcasts, our blogs, and our YouTube channel, as well as our social media posts.
[00:00:44] And then we also sell contracts and legal documents that people can use to. Of course beef up and protect themselves on the backend. So that is the business side of me, the personal side of me. I [00:01:00] actually have a lot of experience in photography because I was a photographer for over 10 years. I still do it on the side as a hobby, but I have had to leave that full-time type of job on the side because I am focusing now on the legal Paige.
[00:01:13] But that’s really where TLP was born is I was. Like legal world. I was going to law school. I was working for a federal judge all while running a photography business. And so I was able to really bring those two passions of entrepreneurship and photography in the wedding world and the creative world. To combine with my legal knowledge, education expertise, but also just love for the law.
[00:01:39] And I really saw that creatives, they needed an easy place to go, a soft landing, if you will, for asking legal questions like they were sick of going down rabbit holes online, like what was actually legitimate information, what wasn’t? They didn’t want to pay an arm and a leg for things. Personally, [00:02:00] I have loved kind of going into this new direction with my business, and so I still do photography a little bit on the side.
[00:02:06] Still a creative, just for all of you listening, I think it’s really, really important to continue with those passions, especially when you’re running a business. And then I am actually from Montana, so I have been born and raised in Montana, and I have my family here, my husband, my dog, my son, and yeah, that’s, that’s me in a nu.
[00:02:24] Kate: That’s awesome. Where are you in Montana.
[00:02:26] Paige: I’m in Missoula.
[00:02:28] Kate: Okay. Okay. I have a sister-in-law in I think billing. No, I can’t even remember.
[00:02:34] Paige: is, we call it, it’s the east side of Montana. I’m on the west side, like right in the middle of the Rocky Mountains. I, we’re kind of the prettier side of Montana, I’m not gonna lie. Um, so mountains all around me. Hiking, lakes, skiing, all the outdoor rec
[00:02:48] Kate: Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I’m in Colorado, so same. Yeah. Yeah. So what did you do photography wise? Were you wedding.
[00:02:58] Paige: Yeah, I primarily [00:03:00] shot weddings on the weekends, but to be very honest with you, when I look back at it, I was like, oh yeah, I used to qualify myself as a wedding photographer. I totally was, but I’m pretty sure I did more family photography. Uh, yeah, and portraits like Montana as a whole, it’s not as big as Colorado and.
[00:03:20] At the time, there just wasn’t as many photographers, like it was still pretty saturated. Um, but I say that because I couldn’t just do weddings.
[00:03:30] I, I feel like I needed to serve the community with every type of portrait photography that I could offer. So I really specialized in families, senior photography, and then I did weddings on the weekends.
[00:03:43] You’re in Colorado, you get it? We have short wedding seasons.
[00:03:46] Kate: Yeah.
[00:03:47] Paige: Um, so it was like a couple months outta the
[00:03:49] Kate: Yeah. Yeah. I have never been a wedding photographer. That is not my, like, nope, that’s not for me. But even just like our family season is short because it gets [00:04:00] cold and you don’t want red noses, so,
[00:04:04] Paige: Totally. I get it.
[00:04:06] Kate: Um, so let’s talk about ai, uh, and kind of the legal side of it.
[00:04:11] So lots of AI things exist. Um, is there something specific you wanna talk about?
[00:04:19] Paige: Yeah, I think we should first honestly just talk about why we’re having this
[00:04:24] Kate: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:26] Paige: You and I we’re a a little bit deeper into it than most people, and what I’m seeing right now is, you know, you had that episode with Dawn. I’ve listened to it. Dawn is one of my really good friends. I find AI fascinating and I think it’s so important to kind of jump on the bandwagon quickly, but other people are kind of in this like totally unaware stage.
[00:04:49] They’ve heard of it, they kind of think of it. Uh, like video games where you’re putting on headsets and you’re like playing with AI
[00:04:58] Kate: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:04:59] Paige: [00:05:00] but no one has, a lot of people haven’t translated that into how you can run your business, especially your photography business effectively. So, I mean, I think everyone should definitely go back and listen to Dawn’s episode first.
[00:05:15] But in a nutshell, what I am really interested in is. Like why ai? Why do we all need to kind of start thinking about it now versus in a couple of years? And what are the concerns about AI that we all have and some misconceptions. And then what part of our business lives are really ready for this,
[00:05:40] Kate: Right,
[00:05:41] Paige: you know, and how is it going to take over a lot of potential jobs?
[00:05:46] Or what are you comfortable with and the ethics behind it? And then we can get into the legalities of it, because I think that’s important for people to have a base knowledge. And you and I can just discuss that before I talk about like copyright
[00:05:59] Kate: Yeah, [00:06:00] yeah, yeah. I think there is like this huge fear around it because it’s so new. Um, and I think that understanding what it is, is, is huge. Um, and like with Dawn, we talked about how it’s really like. A machine or a software that’s learning your preferences and learning from what you give it basically.
[00:06:21] Right. And then helping us, um, with output. So like we’ve got image in, uh, or imagine I can never say it right. Um,
[00:06:33] Paige: imaging cause that’s what it
[00:06:34] Kate: you, okay. Yeah, same. And, and then Dawn told me it was imagined and I was like, oh, makes
[00:06:39] sense. Um,
[00:06:41] Paige: VRBO and B rbo we’re like, I don’t know which one.
[00:06:43] Kate: Right. Yeah. Anyway, um, but that’s like editing for you basically. Um, and taking, it’s mostly, I feel like these tools are saving us time, um, right now, which is the biggest thing and the biggest reason that I see for using them.[00:07:00]
[00:07:00] Paige: Yeah, absolutely. It. I mean, after shoot helps you call, write, chat, G P T. Can, that’s like the buzzword lately because chat g p T came out and lots of people are like, what the heck can this do? It’s like writing things for me, for business owners. Like one, just go get a chat g p t account and play around with it.
[00:07:19] Uh, after you look at. Imagine slash imaging and after shoot, those are like the two number ones for photographers right now. I think it’s just gonna help you speed along the process, especially if you are DIYing everything yourself, like you’re wearing all of the hats as a photographer by yourself. You need, you need to outsource and like business cheap outsourcing.
[00:07:38] So let’s
[00:07:39] do it and chat. G P T is this new open AI source that’s allowing people. Type in input. You prompt chat g p t with things and they will output a textual response to it. So I like to use it and I think you guys should all go get an [00:08:00] account and start using it for like social media hooks. And so you type in, I need a social media hook.
[00:08:07] That is one sentence long. In regards to X topic, and I promise, and then always tell chat, G b T, like give me 10 options and it’ll just like give you 10 options. And they’re so good. And then I always tell people, go back, like keep curating those answers from chat G b T. So then you type in. Okay, now rewrite those responses using the brand voice of and enter your email.
[00:08:34] I mean, there’s, it’s like mind blowing what it, it’s inputting everything from public source. So from the internet it’s all about like what has been put out on the internet for the past 20 years, and that is what the robot and the algorithm is telling Chat, G P T. Push out. So go use that. It, it’s really good for like blog titles as well, rewriting your bio.
[00:08:58] If you are just not [00:09:00] someone that’s, um, a copywriter or has a lot of experience with uh, writing, right, like you’re not a creative writer, it’s great for that. It can help you creative write rewriting template emails. This is great as well if you like, think things are too lengthy as a photographer, they probably.
[00:09:17] So let’s help our clients digest it a little bit better and it can rewrite things in shorten sentences for you. So can like simplified, can do that as well. That’s a really
[00:09:27] Kate: I don’t know that
[00:09:28] Paige: good AI
[00:09:29] Kate: Yeah.
[00:09:29] Paige: Um, we’ve actually been using descript here at the legal Paige for, we’re just kind of testing out its abilities for editing, blah, or editing podcasts, editing videos, and kind of seeing like what it can do.
[00:09:47] Honestly, the, the main concern here is like the robot sounds like a human,
[00:09:52] Kate: yeah,
[00:09:53] Paige: should we trust it? Like trust is the big issue.
[00:09:56] Kate: Yeah, yeah. This is true. And you know, I was. [00:10:00] Listening to the radio this morning and they were talking about, you know, worry that our jobs are gonna be taken or creative industry especially jobs would be taken. But I think I was thinking about it and I was thinking how when I don’t have to spend so much time researching, um, like to get like a really like nebulous answer that chat G p t can kind of pull like it’s.
[00:10:25] It’s doing the research for me and spitting out an answer so much faster than had I like gone to Google and typed in what I was looking for and then read through the articles and tried to like process it all. Chat. G P T is coming back with an answer for that. So I’m saving time on the research end, which allows me more time for the creative part of it I feel like.
[00:10:47] Um, and opens up
[00:10:48] Paige: Absolutely, and the customer service part of
[00:10:51] Kate: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:52] Paige: if we can get away from a lot of those mundane tasks as photographers, we can get back to serving our clients better. If [00:11:00] you, using an AI platform allows you to get your final. Product back to the clients faster, they’re going to be happier. If it’s a cheaper way for you, you end up translating those costs onto the clients down the road.
[00:11:14] It’s the trickle down effect and you have more competitive pricing and clients are happier. Like it’s all about you. Going back to, okay, what, like what can AI help me with customer experience wise, in my opinion?
[00:11:27] Kate: Yeah. Well, and just like even going deeper with that idea that it’s opening us up for more of the creative thinking and like, you have to think back to other technologies that have, um, advanced us as a civilization and advanced us as people and like think our biggest concerns used to be like, How do we heat food?
[00:11:47] You know, like how do we cook things or, um, how do we, you know, get from one place to the other? And when those problems were solved, it allowed us to. Be smarter and think [00:12:00] harder and deeper and come up with new solutions to different problems. So like throughout civilization, all of these little techno technological advances have really, um, shifted and changed what our concerns are.
[00:12:13] It’s like that Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, you know, we’re like, it’s making it so that we have, um, all of those like base needs satisfied and we can do the like, more rewarding. Things and, and dig really into more interesting stuff, I feel like.
[00:12:30] Paige: No, I’m totally with you. I, you know, my biggest concerns, and I think what everybody is worried about is like, is it going to become smarter than humans? Is it going to replace jobs and. That is, you know, I, we, we have a, an audience, like we have, we have lots of contractors that follow the legal Paige, and I know from my dms and my emails back from them is like, I’m worried this is gonna take away my job.
[00:12:59] Like even in [00:13:00] our s. Slack. We had our operations assistant respond back to me. I was like giving her a couple AI tools that I had found online and I was like, Hey, you should try this. Like let’s test it out. And her immediate response back to me was, this is gonna take away my job. Oh no. And she didn’t mean it in like I’m letting her go.
[00:13:18] Kind of sense. I, it’s just like that is the initial worry. The one thing I always tell people is, It’s not human, it is a robot. It’s, it’s not self-aware, it’s not empathetic and what makes, like the human spirit, human is important and that can’t become a part, part of this robot and this AI technology that’s coming out.
[00:13:42] So there, there is an issue that some of the jobs that AI is really, really, really good at could potentially be gone. And I get that, like I even just said, a podcast editor for example. It can do those tasks because you’re literally just telling a robot to like [00:14:00] clip certain things and make the audio sound better.
[00:14:04] That is all stuff that it can be trained to do. The empathy, the creativity, like the artistry, that is not something a robot can do. It’s trying, but we’ve all seen those. Ask images out there that are like, this is absolutely created by a freaking robot,
[00:14:22] Kate: Yeah. But.
[00:14:23] Paige: creativity, your experience. As well.
[00:14:27] Like, I mean the legal world is worried about it. The medical world is worried about it. We are all concerned like, is this going to replace a job in sense? And for you? The one thing I would say, and then we can move on here cuz I, you can tell I’m really passionate about this. I just, I think it’s one gonna become commonplace.
[00:14:47] I think it’s gonna become an a part of everyday life and if you don’t figure it out sooner rather than later on, like how it can benefit your business and how you, like you said, like it will get me back to [00:15:00] thinking about the things that really matter and what I really need to be thinking about and the education and the creativity and like why my.
[00:15:07] Has a U S P. All of those things like that is how you are going to be ahead of your counterparts in a year, in six months from now. Because AI is pushing out apps like nobody’s business and people are taking note.
[00:15:21] Kate: Yep. Yeah. Well, and like honestly, even it gives you a leg up so fast. Like just using it once is gonna help you, you know, get ahead a little bit, um, incrementally, you know, as you use it and really understand how to use it, I think is, is the big thing. Um, Personally with chat g p t. When I put something in and I get a response, I always like tweak it and then ask more questions and, and try to get to like the heart of it so that it’s, I’m in there, you know?
[00:15:53] Um, I don’t like to use, I don’t like to copy paste anything from chat. G P T. How do you feel about [00:16:00] that?
[00:16:01] Paige: Yeah. To be very frank with you, this is one of the legal concerns like. Where is it sourcing this information from and is that information copyrighted? So that is going to be this like ongoing debate there. You know, there’s two basic debates going two sides of the debate that it should be open, like people should be able to use it.
[00:16:25] That anything that. Robots are coming up with can be copy and pasted. And then there’s other theories of thought that are like one, of course chat, G p t can lie, can be biased, can have kind of a morph sense of reality, and you have to read into that. That is where the human aspect comes in. And I am in your boat where I’m thinking, yeah, copy and paste is absolutely not the name of the game here.
[00:16:53] You need to look at it and then tweak it ever so slightly. To match your brand voice to match how you would say that out [00:17:00] loud to your friend if you were just having a casual conversation in the street or if you were having like an in initial discovery call with a photography client. Um, so I definitely think, don’t think copy and pasting is the way to go, especially because you don’t know if it copy and pasted portions of that section.
[00:17:18] From a certain blog that’s copyrighted this, we can also get into here like this is the concern with the US Copyright Office and why they launched an initiative last week, an office-wide initiative for ai. It’s like the highest offices in the US and departments are taking note of this, and copyright ability is the number one concern.
[00:17:43] Kate: Yeah, that’s huge. Um, I didn’t know that was happening. I’m glad to hear it because it is, it’s, it’s confusing and like, you know, we were talking about this, I was talking about this with Dawn, about how, like if you ask it for an outline for something, is it pulling that outline from [00:18:00] another person’s website?
[00:18:01] And then like, how much different does your, like if you’re following the same outline as somebody else’s blog posts, are you infringing on their copyright? Um, how does that work?
[00:18:11] Paige: Yeah, I mean, coming up. So ideas can’t be copyrightable. Um, they can’t be copyrighted with the US Copyright Office, so I, there it is. It’s like this weird. Dilemma and distinction between, is it just an idea that then it’s regurgitating output using various ways to rewrite that paragraph? How much of it is.
[00:18:35] Plagiarized, so to speak. Like is it verbatim? Is it using your brand tone? That’s why I was telling people like ask it to do certain things with its initial response from you, because then you’re going to get a more curated answer that better aligns with your business, and I would probably argue is.
[00:18:57] Issues with copyright infringement or [00:19:00] has less issues with copyright infringement. So yeah. And then the, the other, the other side of the coin here is like when you then put that on your website, okay, or you use that bio or you use that text to basically put copy all over your website. Uh, are those, once you’ve even tweaked it, And you is, is that copyrightable?
[00:19:25] And this is what the US Copyright Office is looking at right now in this like the legal world. Our eyes are ra, our eyebrows are raised. We’re kind of, we’re like, wait, what? You can copyright AI supplemented works? And the copyright office said yes.
[00:19:43] But it’s all about the balancing act between how much you as a human.
[00:19:49] Contributed to the end work, the final product. And then you also, the copyright office last week issued this huge [00:20:00] memorandum and article in the Federal Register, which is a federal publication. They’ve never done this before. And they gave people the play by play on how you have to have, you have to give the copyright.
[00:20:12] And have a proper disclosure of the AI’s contribution to the work in order for you to get a valid copyright registration. If you’re submitting the application and all of us are like, yeah, no, duh. But then what happens for what happens for people that haven’t said AI contributed to it and they already submitted? The US Copyright Office kind of addressed that, but not totally. This is why they’re launching this init. And then people who are just like not going to disclose it, like I, if it’s not, if it’s so smart and it’s really close to looking like a human created it, how are you going to know if AI supplemented [00:21:00] that work in some way?
[00:21:01] So this is, these are the legal things that are happening right now. The sad news is, is the legal world is going to be behind.
[00:21:10] Kate: Yeah. Yeah,
[00:21:11] Paige: It’s slow. It’s slow, it’s always been slow. There’s bureaucracy, there’s, there’s court systems. Everything’s backed up. And so you can’t make laws and regulations and stipulations and parameters around AI when AI is way faster than what’s going on in the legal world.
[00:21:30] So I foresee that kind of this copyright. Top dog that’s issuing statements surrounding the copyright ability of AI generated works is going to have a trickle down effect. We’re going to see more laws, more regulations, more parameters legally speaking regarding AI content. But online it’s just like really, how are they gonna monitor it?
[00:21:58] That, that’s my opinion
[00:21:59] Kate: Yeah. [00:22:00] Yeah. It’s so tricky because honestly, like how can you even tell if something was written by chat G p T or not? Like it’s really, that’s really tricky
[00:22:11] Paige: It is really tricky chat. J p t. Um, I think they’re, they’re getting a lot of, uh, flack about it and. Other AI sources like the Google Source that’s coming out that might integrate with like 365 and Google Docs and spreadsheets. And I’m like, heck yes. That is gonna be so beneficial to us as creatives who we all have, most of us have Gmail accounts and utilize that resource cuz it’s complimentary, which is worthwhile.
[00:22:41] Or it’s a part of like your Gmail bundle that you buy. Um, and. Microsoft is coming out with something as well that’s supposed to be a competitor of chat, G P T, and they’re saying that they might have like clear. Uh, [00:23:00] and transparent watermarks over AI created sources. And, and I know it’s fascinating because they’re trying to be able to show like that this text came entirely from chat G p t or from these like text AI sources and, and it be like you need to tweak it a little bit, but then how much tweaking gets rid of that?
[00:23:28] Transparent somewhere in the code watermark that I have no idea. I’m not that smart to figure out.
[00:23:34] Kate: No.
[00:23:34] Paige: And, and then I was listening to the Today Show this morning, which is really interesting cause I’m like, oh my gosh. The Today Show is talking about this, like they’re trying to get into the living rooms of.
[00:23:46] The 40 year olds, the 50 year olds, the 60 year olds who were like, what the hell is this? What is ai? I am scared. Where do I go to get it? And they had this like quick five minute segment on it. And one of the things that they were saying [00:24:00] is, you know, a lot of parents and people along those lines are concerned about their kids not being able to write, not have the basic skillset to write. As we all know, kids in college and kids in high school, they’re using it. They’re using it for essays, they’re using it for their, whatever they need to submit to get a grade. And they’re apparently, and I would assume this is going to come out, is there’s going to be AI technology that can detect, so like a teacher could buy this AI technology or you know, the education program, the county could buy this program and the teachers could just input it and see.
[00:24:39] These, you know, AI text output sources were the ones that produced it. But I’m like, again, it goes back to how much do we need to change it, how much do we need to change it so that it doesn’t detect that, um, this is going to be this ongoing battle, this copyright ability, this ethical battle as [00:25:00] well.
[00:25:00] Those go hand in hand, legal and ethics. And so you as a business owner just need to decide like what are. What are you comfortable with? What do you want to use it for in your business? Take baby steps, but definitely don’t just like sit on the sidelines.
[00:25:15] Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Um, side note, do you watch South Park?
[00:25:20] Paige: I don’t.
[00:25:21] Kate: Oh my gosh. There’s a chat G P T episode, so it’s worth watching if you have H B T H B O
[00:25:26] Paige: I’m in a YouTube it
[00:25:27] Kate: Yeah, it’s pretty funny cause it’s the kids are using chat G P T. Well the boys are using it to text their girlfriends is how it starts. It’s hilarious.
[00:25:40] Paige: could to that would be beneficial to men who have no idea how to communicate towards women.
[00:25:46] Kate: Yes. It’s so funny. Uh, it’s a good episode. But, um, back to the topic a little bit more. Let’s talk about plagiarism. How, what’s the line like? How do you draw that line between, um, what’s original [00:26:00] and what’s plagiarized? Like, if you are using, say, w like going back to that concept of asking for an outline for something and then writing about, like writing, filling in that outline, is that
[00:26:12] Paige: It’s a basic legal answer of, it depends, and it’s this massive gray area. It’s just like how a teacher would basically be determining if this is plagiarism or not, right? Like how verbatim is it taken from? X site. The problem that we have is unlike you writing an essay and submitting it, that’s kind of what we all know it.
[00:26:38] I would say our generation, um, millennials, you know, gen Zers, like our generation kind of knows that plagiarism. Really happened in school and that’s where we first learned about it. And it’s like, don’t take something that you found online and put it in a Word doc and submit it to your teacher. The [00:27:00] problem here is how you have no idea where that source is coming from.
[00:27:04] So we, we can’t trace it back to the source because, AI platforms are not giving us those sources. That is something actually that, that Microsoft AI program, I know that the, um, the founder of it, or the, the person, the creator of it behind the developer, came out and said, like, unlike chat G P T and these other programs, We, we really want to be able to implement sourcing and citations in our output, and that’s important to us.
[00:27:36] I think that was a really smart move on Microsoft’s part because it’s Microsoft. Um, so utilizing, and like I said, it’s just gonna get smarter and smarter and AI technology as a whole is going to start taking note of why people care about this AI program versus this AI program. And I could foresee.
[00:27:56] Plagiarism, and again, plagiarism here [00:28:00] isn’t necessarily the concern. I think it’s. It’s copyright, like copyright infringement of things that are found online and what constitutes fair use and what doesn’t. And right now AI technology is fair use. It’s fair game. It’s been on the internet for 20 years and it’s giving you a little bit of a different output.
[00:28:21] It’s not going to give you verbatim of something. It would never want to steal copyright like that is, I’m, I’m almost positive that’s built into the algorithm.
[00:28:30] Kate: That’s good to know. That’s good info. Cuz I’m always like leery of like, uh, how much of this can I use and how much do I need to change? And, you know, and, and like, I feel like the more questions you ask it, like the more it skews into being something. Unique, um, like the more parameters you give it.
[00:28:50] Um, like for example, I used, I asked it for a headline for something and I used a headline template that I have from Ashlyn Carter, um, for [00:29:00] copywriting. Like she has headline templates that I love, but I put in, I said like, write me a headline using this format about this. And it pops out, you know, pops out your headline and it’s like, pretty good, you know.
[00:29:13] Paige: Oh, it is super good. Parameters are really important. You don’t just wanna give it like a blanket prompt and assume that the initial output is what you should be using and copying and pasting. So if you guys get anything out of this episode, legally speaking, make sure you’re tweaking it and or make sure that you are.
[00:29:33] Narrowing down the parameters on whatever textual output that say chat j p t is giving you. Um, it, other AI programs like after shoot and like imaging or imagine whatever we’re gonna call it, uh, the, the copyright ability of the images is already owned by you. So we don’t have an issue with copyright there.
[00:29:55] We don’t really have an issue with if, if you’re giving it. Base [00:30:00] presets, those type of things for batch editing, like they’re yours, you created them. It’s important to go back and just do like a thorough look through, but we’re gonna do that if we have a photo editor editing things for us as well. Like you want to be the final glance.
[00:30:16] Again, I’m not super worried about images that you created and the copyright ability surrounding it. Um, legally though, I, I am, this is like my big thing that I have been diving into in my team. Is, how do we tell our clients about this? Is it similar to subcontractors where we can hire them and we don’t really have to disclose?
[00:30:40] Or is, is it more of an ethical and legal issue of disclosure to protect yourself and any liability that could come up with using AI technology? I agree with the latter because. We have no idea what’s going to happen in the coming [00:31:00] years, and I think regulations surrounding disclosure are going to come out.
[00:31:04] I think this is, this is being seen right now on a federal level with the US Copyright Office being like, no, no, no. You need to disclose this. So I think it’s really important for us to disclose it to our clients and it. It. Some people feel weird about that. They don’t really know how to do it. Um, I think you can easily do it in like a clause in your contract.
[00:31:27] Just like if you had an associate that was, I mean this is, this is kind of a, a different scenario, but if you had an associate who was shooting something for you and they were the lead photographer and going to be there and had. Large contribution to, to the final works. You’re going to disclose that in a clause.
[00:31:49] So AI technology, if you’re utilizing it for a lot of the work that like post-production work that you’re doing. I would suggest that you disclose that it [00:32:00] doesn’t need to be fourth right and center in the middle of your contract. It can be down towards the bottom in those general provisions or boiler point languages.
[00:32:09] Uh, boy, sorry. My gosh, I cannot talk today. Boiler plate language, say that five times fast. That’s difficult. Uh, it like, that’s where I would suggest a clause like. B, and it’s just one thing that you copy and paste. You put it into your contract. We have ’em at the legal Paige.com. We, we have a feeling that these are going to become more and more commonplace in contracts. And the last thing I will say here is website terms and conditions.
[00:32:38] So not just your clients, but disclosure purposes on your website. Because we have copyright disclosures on in within our website terms and conditions. Everyone’s really aware of that, right? I own the copyright to the images on my website.
[00:32:52] You are going to tell users you own that copyright in your TNCs, you’re going to disclose any type of [00:33:00] trademarks. You’re going to disclose any type of like limitations surrounding, you know, the usability of your website, if you have affiliate links, so on and so forth, right? There. There is going to be a big opportunity for people to disclose AI generated content because lots of photographers are going to use AI technology.
[00:33:23] To supplement things on their website. And I think you just need to say that like, we use AI generated, uh, technology to do X, y, Z on our website and we like disclaim any liability surrounding it. It’s kind of putting the liability back on the AI program that you used. Now this gets a little tricky because the AI programs are also giving you non-exclusive licenses to use. So it’s like, who’s really liable here? And I think that is gonna be the issue that comes up in court [00:34:00] cases.
[00:34:00] Kate: Everybody’s passing the buck, right?
[00:34:02] Paige: Yeah, that’s totally what it is. But do it. Do it. Try to try
[00:34:07] Kate: Try to pass it. Yeah. Don’t be the one that’s not passing it. When it comes to like imagine, um, and after shoot, so are you up upload, do you know if you’re uploading to those programs? Like if, like is the concern that’s there’s like a, a leak in the people’s photos go out or what’s the concern about liability there, I guess?
[00:34:30] Paige: Yeah. I mean, I think that’s the concern with every single AI program, right? Like how much are you inputting? Something that you own and have IP in into the program, and then it like, what is it doing with that information? These AI programs have disclaimers on them that they’re not keeping any of your ip, they’re, they’re not like sourcing any of that information.
[00:34:57] It’s just on public source, on whatever they’re [00:35:00] regurgitating and responding to you with. I, I don’t know the answer to this.
[00:35:06] Kate: Yeah.
[00:35:06] Paige: I think it’s sticky. It’s a worry. I, I, I could foresee that some AI programs and developers like, might skirt around this issue and try to have, and try to utilize people’s IP to produce better response.
[00:35:28] With their AI program. I don’t know though. That’s just a theory. You guys can take it or leave it. Again, I think that as the, the crazy thing is, is like how are judges going to interpret these types of cases? They’re going to literally have coders probably on the stand and making like expert disclosures in cases.
[00:35:50] Because, no, we don’t know. Lawyers don’t know, and certainly 60 year old judges don’t know, um, how to actually look at what is the [00:36:00] code and algorithm of this program telling it to do, and where is it getting this information from.
[00:36:05] Kate: Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah, like just the, the generational, like variance too on using this stuff I think is really interesting and it’ll be interesting to see. You know, like my 89 year old great grandma or grandma has Facebook, will she start using ai? Like, you know, who knows? But
[00:36:29] Paige: Probably not. I
[00:36:30] mean, I’ve been talking to my parents about it and they’re like, this is scary. Scary is the word I would say, and I am not touching it with a 10 foot pole. And all of us are like, oh my God, tell me
[00:36:40] Kate: so cool. Yeah.
[00:36:41] Paige: What is, this is so cool. What is the technology like? I gotta be ready for when our kids are in college and it is, it is a part of their everyday life.
[00:36:51] They’re going to have massive AI apps that they use every single day. So I want to have the knowledge base so that I can [00:37:00] parent better when I’m older. Um, anyway, yeah, generational things is absolutely a concern right now, but that is not the, that is not who AI is targeting.
[00:37:11] Kate: Right, right. Have you seen, I just saw today that Canva has a new AI like magic wand and magic eraser for photos.
[00:37:21] Paige: Yeah, Canva is, honestly, I can only imagine the conversations. I would love to be a fly on the wall of some of those board meetings, like, or whatever they’re talking about. Uh, Canva is going to have to move fast, and I know that they’re concerned about it, especially for creatives because I, they, they’re a billion dollar company.
[00:37:41] Like they make a ton of money and they were the leader in this for so long. Like when we got background image remover around Canva, everybody was super jazzed about it. And that just happened a couple of years ago, I think, or like a year ago. It was really soon. And [00:38:00] these AI programs have been able to do it forever.
[00:38:02] So they’ve, they’re having to come keep up with the times.
[00:38:06] Kate: Yeah. But I feel like they’re making it more accessible, like they’re making Canva makes it more accessible to use AI tools than for somebody that’s not so into technology. Um, like, I
[00:38:19] Paige: I
[00:38:19] agree with that and I think. I agree with that, but I also think that it’s because we’re so comfortable with
[00:38:27] Kate: Right.
[00:38:28] Paige: and we know, and we are in it every single day. So Canva has a leg up here that if they can start implementing ai, and that is why I’m like, I want to be in the room here. They’re thinking we gotta get.
[00:38:40] Oh my gosh. This program has this tool, AI tool. We gotta get it in our program because all of the users are on our program and people hate change. People don’t want to learn a new program. So, and that’s what’s clunky about these AI technology programs is like, you go in and you’re like, what? Like [00:39:00] why did the developer set it up this way?
[00:39:02] It’s not user friendly. So Canva, you are 100% right, is always, always going to. Be superior to these programs as long as they can implement it quickly. So I bet they’re hiring. Psychos right now
[00:39:17] Kate: yeah, I bet. I
[00:39:19] Paige: that they can get this as a part of Canva. Um, but yeah, I’m really excited as a photographer and a creative, and my entire team is on Canva.
[00:39:26] We have, you know, probably hundreds of thousands of like images and documents and graphics and everything on Canva that we’ve utilized for the past, you know, eight years. And it, it’s gonna be really cool to see what the program comes out with. So I’m very excited.
[00:39:41] Kate: There was the, I saw somebody editing an image in Canva today where they just, it was like a picture of water and sky and they ran the brush over the, the sky and typed in like, I want birds and trees in the sky in a sunny sky. And Canva gave them like four options [00:40:00] of AI image. Like it was crazy. Like crazy to see how fast and easy some of that stuff can be.
[00:40:08] Um, for. That’s, you know, that’s advanced Photoshop skills to,
[00:40:14] Paige: totally. I mean, Lightroom did it. Lightroom like has where you can grab the sky and you can grab the background and you can grab people’s faces, and we love seeing that it’s. Just going to make our work more efficient. It’s going to get us back. If we’re gonna tie this episode up with a boat, it’s absolutely going to get us back to doing what is most important for us.
[00:40:33] What does your marketing look like? How are you, you know, boosting your client experience? How are you having competitive pricing? How you know, are you explaining your U s P to clients better and better and better? So that, that. Honestly, I just love AI for that purpose.
[00:40:56] Kate: Well, and, and like it feels like, you know, the aliens, robots taking [00:41:00] over, but also it, it gives us time for more human connection. And so I think it’s just really important to embrace it as much as you can and be careful legally to make sure you. Making those changes and entering parameters and all of those things, but embrace it.
[00:41:18] I’m, I’m so excited about, uh, all of this technology. It’s so cool.
[00:41:22] Paige: Me too. Thanks for chatting with me about it. This was a fun
[00:41:26] Kate: Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on. It was a great conversation. Paige, where can people find you online?
[00:41:31] Paige: Yeah, I am really easy to find the legal p a i g e.com on Instagram, on TikTok, on YouTube, we have a podcast called The Legal Paige Podcast. We have a Facebook community with thousands of business owners in it called the Legal Paige Community. So, uh, if you have additional questions, you can always reach out to us there, and we are going to be pushing out a bunch of new ai.
[00:41:54] Content. So definitely look for our blogs and our YouTubes and our podcasts on that.
[00:41:59] Kate: Awesome. [00:42:00] Thanks so much, Paige.
[00:42:01] Paige: Yeah, thanks.
[00:42:02] Kate: Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of How You Pictured it. I love hearing from. Reach out to me on Instagram at Dear Kate brand strategy and be sure to rate and review the podcast in whatever player you’re listening to. It helps us so much to spread the word. Thanks again and I will talk to you soon.
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